Wednesday, July 20, 2005

God's Limitations

Ofcourse, we all know that God (if there exists one) is (or would be) all-powerful and Omnipotent and all that. However, we also know that God cannot do certain things that are logically impossible. In other words, even God has to obey the fundamental law of logic, which is non-contradiction, that A is A and cannot be A and non-A at the same time. So, if the entity "God" that we assume independently exists is under the limitation of the principles of logic, then the CONCEPT of "God" ITSELF should also be perfectly and LOGICALLY consistent, without any internal contradictions, or else, the concept "God" would then be rendered illogical and contradictory and therefore false! So, let's take some concepts of what we understand God is or is not, and see if they make clear, consistent logic: God is perfectly moral. Morality is in always doing that which is right. Doing what is right requires one to know what is right from what is wrong. God always knows what is right from what is wrong because God knows everything. But doing what is right and NOT doing what is wrong implies that there is an option to choose from. Therefore, there should be choices of right and wrong that God can choose to do, from which he picks the right thing to do. However, God can NEVER pick the wrong thing to do, because He always picks the right thing and because He KNOWS what the right thing is. But if God can NEVER pick the wrong thing to do, it means he has NO CHOICE in the matter, i.e. He cannot help but pick ONLY the right thing to do. He CANNOT bring himself to do the wrong thing. But God is all-powerful and can do ANYTHING. But God cannot go against His own nature -- which is to ALWAYS do the right thing. Since, He is incapable of ever doing the wrong thing, He is also limited by His own nature in all the things he can do. Thus, God cannot have the CAPACITY or the potential to do the wrong thing, because that would mean that there exists a possibility for that potential to do the wrong thing, to manifest. But there is ABSOLUTELY NO POSSIBILITY even, for God to ever pick the wrong thing to do. Thus, without any choice in the matter, God does not have free-will to exercise both this potentials and then choose his potential to do right all the time. Since no capacity to ever do wrong exists in God, He is bounded by His nature to always do right -- automatically. Thus, no free-will, thus no choice, then automatic nature, like instinct. Thus, is God's actions TRULY moral if there was no deliberate, purposeful, benevolent action in choosing to do only the right over the capacity to do all the wrong? It cannot be that God cannot have free-will, because God can choose to do ANYTHING. But I just demonstrated that God has no free-will or independent CHOICE in the matter of doing the right thing or the wrong thing. Thus, this whole argumentation of God being "perfectly moral" and having "free-will" and being independently "omnipotent" seems to fall flat on its face. Too many contradictions in the internal concept of God. But God has to be the MOST SUPREMELY logical and intelligent Being ever! And God has to obey the principles of logic -- like He cannot commit suicide because it is logically impossible for Him to do so if He is eternal and immortal. Therefore, God is not real. Contradictions cannot be real. The unreal does not exist. God does not exist.


Blogger innommable said...

I think that if Tyrel wants you to stop blogging about God, he should stop dragging you with him to church.... lol...


Much love y'all!

7/24/2005 06:11:00 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting points you make. I would just like to say that being right or wrong, in my opinion, are human concepts. God made Lucifer and to most ppl Lucifer is represented as Evil. This is our concept. But maybe Lucifer, or any manifestion of evil, is not really evil, per se, but merely here to test us. Also, in my opinion, to truly grasp what "GOD" is, is way beyond what humans can truly understand.

4/08/2007 09:09:00 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Im with you on this buddy. Ok, Has anything ever happened to you that you would say is absolutely magic or unreal, like one day you started to fly around or float on water or walk right threw something? NO, it cant because it is IMPOSSIBLE! There is absolutely NO evidence that there is a god. Oh wait, except a book that could have been written by some king who wanted his followers to stop raping/killing/stealing, So he wrote rules and said they came from a higher being. That does make sense if you think about it. Humans evolved. Evolution has been proven. Has a rock ever appeared in front of you out of no-where? Fuck no, its impossible. Just like a humans appearing out of no-where. If some guy walked up to you and said "hey man i can disappear" would you believe him? I hope not. You would probably say " Prove It" because its impossible and totally illogical. So why would believing in something equally illogical be any different? But you know what, If believing in a higher being gets you through the day, and keeps you happy, then by all means believe in it. Im just saying that from a logical point of view it does not make sense at all. The bible is the only proof. Sure, Jesus walked the earth, and i bet he was a damn good guy helping people out. So good that people wanted him to be remembered so they wrote a book. But as that book was passed down from generation to generation they had to keep hyperbolizing (exaggerating) what he did to keep the youth interested. It makes sense. Jesus was an a man like you and I and wasn't the son of some ...THING. Thank you.

1/24/2008 06:34:00 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First off, evolution has not been proven. Hence, "theory of evolution". Also, the examples given as to why God cannot exist are interesting but they offer no real proof of anything. I am not implying that I can give case and point examples of proof as it relates to the existence of God either. I understand that any example that I may use can in fact be spun in another direction. That is whole ideal of any debate. I am a Christian and by saying this I am fully aware that my bias will be pointed out and it will be said that I am using only what can help argue my beliefs so I can be right, but again, that is the whole purpose of a debate isn't it?
With that said, using logic to show that God cannot exist requires a look at logic itself. This goes back to the theory. To use laws that are founded in the construct of a theory to disprove anything outside of said "theory" is hardly proof at all.
We know we had a beginning, we believe that there will be an end, but that is it. The point of origin (singularity) is not known. Likewise, our ending is quite the mystery as well. If we do not have a full grasp of the very construct of existence, how can logically say there is no God?

2/08/2008 05:23:00 am  
Blogger limitless said...

being an educated christian i MUST address this...even from the logical perspective. before i completely destroy your argument i must point out that the language you speak write and communicate has its own limitations. you can never completely translate perfectly from one language to another without missing or distorting a meaning. so if you want to disprove the existence of an "all mighty" and "infinite" being, it is impossible fairly, objectively and completely describe who/what God is within the confines of any language. also, the things that you claim are make no "logical" sense...GOD is. that is an absolute truth. what is the logic behind GOD committing suicide? to prove he can't? what makes you qualified to question a being that created all you are? for if he could be subjected to the "laws" humans abide by, Logical people wouldn't worship even the idea of him. And i don't completely ignore science. i believe science is the way GOD can slowly reveal himself to us. If we evolved..then from what? and keep asking that until you get back to subatomic particals....then ask where they came from. if everything came from something else why can't you find the first existing substance? and if you did. what created it. God supersedes this simplistic form of thinking. its called Faith. it is the answer. ever answer you look for is in that "book" the bible. the beginning, events that will take place...and science has run across many proofs of the bibles validity. but those who want to defy the highest authority to feel like they are the highest reject this thinking in order to "find it" them selves. but if you choose to do so i say this, if you wait to receive your humanly evidential proof before you believe in the faith, it is too late and as the "book" says you will be cast into hell. logically..if you all have to do is believe in something that advices nothing but perfection to be saved from an eternity of it worth the risk questioning in the first place. i do not say any of this as an attack on the original writer..but an attack on the sin that has driven you to write this to piece that may lead others astray. i encourage you, to let go of being god for a while..and allow god to be who he is to you.

1/08/2009 10:50:00 pm  
Blogger limitless said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

1/08/2009 10:51:00 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is a choice. The choice is to always do the right thing. He cannot do wrong because He has chosen to be that way. God is who He wants to be just as I can be who I choose to be. For example, if I said I cannot cook, it is not because I am not capable of cooking, but because I have made choices that produced these consequences. God does not need to say that He has chosen to be good. He merely has to say that He is good and it is so.

1/27/2009 12:39:00 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We can argue about the proof of God and since many say the only proof of God is the bible then lets see if we can prove the bible. There are what people would say contradictions in the bible. Are the actually contradictions or uses of literature for people to understand. In the bible it is said the Sun stopped in the sky. Well we know that cannot be right since to the earth the sun is not moving we are moving, but how do you explain that to people who do not really understand that the earth moves around the sun. This so called contradiction is only a way for people to understand the bible. These contradictions are not really contradictions at all.

Now lets look at tangible evidence of the bible's validity. There are many prophecies in the bible so lets see if any of them came true. If God were to say something would happen then of course it would happen would it not? That is logical so lets see if he keeps his word. In the old testament the Book of Amos was written around 750 B.c. Most historians and experts would agree on this. It speaks about a nation called Tyre. God says the nation of Tyre will fall and its remnants will be thrown into the sea. The prophecy will be fulfilled by two kings the first Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Tyre then Alexander the Great came along and threw the remnants into the sea to build a bridge to the remaining part of Tyre. Alexander the Great then destroyed the rest of the nation. Alexander the Great did this around the year 332 B.C. That is one prophecy fulfilled by the bible and confirmed by science and history. because of this we can see that the bible is true and therefore God is real right? if you have any questions over Tyre look it up there is more to it than what I explained and it goes into even more detail I challenge you to compare the bible to what really happened.

5/14/2010 02:10:00 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, I'm an atheist so don't misinterpret what I'm about to say. Saying that he always does what is right, does not mean that he does not have the choice to do wrong, it simply means that he always picks right. Also, what you concluded at the end is a little bit of a jump, because what you argued there was not that God does not exist, but that he does not exist in his Perfectly Omnipotent and Perfectly Good state. When a rational theist (do these exist?) looks at this argument they would simply conclude that God is not Omnipotent in all ways, that he is held by his own standards of morality, and he is held by the standards of logic, and continue on with life. Good try though! Keep it up!

11/04/2010 04:52:00 pm  
Blogger Slappy said...

I was wrong. You are right in the last post. God does not choose to do the right thing. However, the way it needs to be viewed is that God's way is the right way. Anything that is not God's way is the wrong way. The way morality is defined at the beginning of the Bible is not in our customary way of understanding it such as stealing, killing, or lying. It is defined by disobedience. We did the one and only thing that we were commanded not to do. Soon after that other rules are made and man is told what is right and wrong. This very idea would turn dozens of people I know from the concept of a God, but if such a being is omnipotent then anyone should be willing to grant that being that authority. Morality is defined in the first post as always doing that which is right. I would disagree in that morality, according to God, is doing what he says.

5/11/2011 08:32:00 am  

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