Thursday, May 12, 2005

God's life must be boring.

Assume the following: God is immortal. God is indestructible. God is always moral. God cannot make any mistakes (in an absolute or objective sense). Thus, whatever God does is fully consistent with His (assuming a masculine God - I don't really have a good reason for that) will. Also, whatever He does will be fully and completely perfect as God cannot go wrong or be mistaken in His actions (His creation of this world and all in it being apparently less than perfect is a whole other topic for intense debate and discussion. Not right now). Such a God, then it seems, is racked with either major contradictions or with a very boring life: God cannot ever be wrong, thus He never has the possibility of suffering the negative consequences of His wrong actions, thus whatever His actions, they will have consequences He already is aware of and according to what He always wanted (to say that God wants, presumes that he has desires, which presumes that the achievement of those desires can provide satisfaction, which presumes that God is not fully satisfied, which means God has needs or wants, which means God is not perfectly complete or self-sufficient or self-satisfied. That is again, a whole other area of discussion). Thus, if God is fully perfect, immortal, and perfectly moral, God has not even the remotest possibility of doing something that is less than perfect, or killing Himself and reversing His immortality, or doing something that is even slightly immoral. Thus, an Omnipotent God is unable to do those things. He has NO CHOICE but to keep on living for eternity because He is immortal (immortal, by definition, is an incapacity to not exist). God has NO choice but to do the things He does, which are by the way, always perfect and correct. In other words, God fundamentally cannot CHOOSE His actions because His actions are REQUIRED by His definition. If God has no choice, then God cannot have any values, i.e. He cannot value any one thing over another. For example, if God cannot CHOOSE to annihilate Himself because his essential characteristic is to be eternally existing, then He cannot possibly have any value for His own life. Life can be valued only if there is a possibility of losing it (death). We humans value life so dearly because losing it is not just a possibility but a certainty. Similarly, we value the object of our love and affection because there is a possibility of losing that object. This is the reason we often (not always) value our friends and soul-mates more than our own family members because we have had an instrumental role in choosing them. But we also value our family members because, though we may not have had a choice in who they are, we understand the positive dynamics contributed by that relationship and by that person's existence, that the possibility of losing all of that is clearly understood (though maybe not always consciously regarded). A value is something that one strives to hold on to, one tries to obtain and keep because one is aware of the possibility of not having it or losing it after one has had it. If there is no possibility of being unable to obtain that object or lose it, then that object carries no value for the person. So, back to God. God cannot but live. God cannot but be moral. God cannot but be perfect. Thus, all of those things (at least), have absolutely no alternatives. And in the face of no alternatives, one cannot engage in choice. Thus, God has no choice in the matter and therefore cannot value His own actions nor can He value His own existence. This also means that God is limited in the things He can do. All of these things raises major contradictions about the concept of God. So, one must either reject the basic assumptions about God with which I started out this analysis (immortality, perfect morality, and infallibility), or one must reject entirely the idea that something as a "God" exists. Otherwise, the only option left would be to agree that God's life must be really boring!


Blogger Semperviva said...

to say that God wants--
when human referes to God they referes to him in human terms, for better or for worse. the idea of God is grafted into a humans mind in terms of human imagery. one says GOd desire analagously, or else, one could rightly NEVER say anything of GOd.

6/09/2005 04:20:00 PM  
Blogger Semperviva said...

God has NO choice but to do the things He does, which are by the way, always perfect and correct. In other words, God fundamentally cannot CHOOSE His actions because His actions are REQUIRED by His definition.

please expound on this point!

6/09/2005 04:34:00 PM  
Blogger Ergo Sum said...

Assume that "one can rightly NEVER say anything of God"...
Then it logically follows that all and any sort of description or effort at explaining the concept and nature of God is entirely futile among both the believers and the Atheists... but the believers still believe despite any possible way of verifying their beliefs (not through logic, not through objective experiences, not through rational, non-mystical, independent observation)...
The believers idea of God then must be taken as purely the creation of their immensely imaginative minds... or it can be taken on the basis of Faith.
Then you are reduced to an unarguable position like that of another believer who believes with complete and utter faith in the existence of a Superman and a Batman with incomprehensible and indescribable qualities like that of the concept of God. Or you are faced with an indefensible position against a very imaginative (maybe Schizophrenic) individual who is convinced of the truth of the existence of his creatures.
A logical and rational person ofcourse cannot make any sensible arguments against those positions because both those positions -- faith and imagination (or delusion) -- do not have any objective premise as its foundation. Something that is not based on an objective premise can only give rise to subjective and arbitrary conclusions.

6/10/2005 05:45:00 PM  
Blogger Ergo Sum said...

God has NO choice except to do the things that are CONSISTENT with His nature. In other words, God CANNOT do anything wrong because He is always right and does everything right. God cannot make any mistakes because He is infallible. God cannot commit suicide because the Nature of His Being forces Him to be immortal and eternal.
Thus God cannot make ANY fundamental CHOICE in His life because whatever He "DOES" (using a human term there, for a lack of any better word; by DOES, I mean like creating the Universe or flooding the world, or killing a whole bunch of people in a city, or whatever... heal the blind, blah blah blah)... yeah, so whatever HE DOES He Has NO CHOICE BUT TO DO IT because he already KNEW He would DO it, and that is the ONLY thing He can do because it is the ONLY right thing to do, because He cannot do anything that is wrong or is a mistake.
If God is forced by His nature to do those things (like keep on existing for eternity, not being able to commit suicide) He cannot POSSIBLY have any CHOICE! And since He has NO choice in whether he lives or dies (He has to live), He cannot POSSIBLY value His life because one values only those things that one has to work to keep and recognizes the possibility of losing it (read my blog for a detailed description of value and choices)... one values money because one has to work to have it and keep it and one knows the very real possibility of losing it... one values a lover because one has to work to keep the lover and understands the possibility of losing a lover... one values life... blah blah blah.
HENCE... God cannot value his own life... cannot POSSIBLY value His own life... and therefore His existence for ETERNITY must be sooooo dreary to Him! :)
[Unless ofcourse, you believe that God can kill Himself -- contradiction -- or that God can make mistakes -- contradiction -- or that God is not fully perfect -- contradiction --- or that God simply does not exist -- PERFECT LOGICAL SENSE!].

6/10/2005 05:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, and to think that for thousands of years we've been duping ourselves, when all we needed to do was wait for your brilliant mind to unveil the mysteries of the cosmos. I must say, I have never found anyone so very egotistical as to state that they have logically disproved the existance of God, probably because most people are logical enough to realize that as an abstract and eternal entity, God, by nature, (i'm using the word "nature" here loosely) cannot be proven nor disproven. Also, to place all those who adhere to spiritual beliefs on the same plane as those with mental disorders, is un-neccessary, because they are two distinctly different groups of people. You also conveniently skirt the issue of consciousness here, presumably, due to your semi-conscious state. The issue of consciousness is discussed in an intriguing fashion here: . A friend pointed that one out to me. Read the "apologetics" section for a look at an INTELLECTUAL discussion of God. Lastly, it is presumptuous to even consider finite logic as a means of quatifying the infinite, so it might help you to know that your discussion here is essentially an exercise of mental masturbation. Well, perhaps you enjoyed it. Next time you decide to be clever, try pretending to be someone else, perhaps someone less homely and arrogant, and go out to a bar or something won't you? I'm just trying not to giggle when I imagine the conversation that you and God will have when you meet. I envision a lot of awkward staring at the floor...tee hee!

10/27/2006 04:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Ergo said...

Hahaha! Anonymous, what a funny comment! I love it. :)

Well, just so you know.. i have moved my blog over to Wordpress. So, now I have hosted at

Come check me out over there, and read the posts under the categort of "Atheism" for some truly brilliant writings.

Oh, but I won't bother checking out the links you offered. I choose not to find the time to waste on that.

but your comments are welcome. :) I look forward to seeing your anonymous self at

10/28/2006 12:15:00 AM  
Anonymous wongda said...

I think in order to avoid boringness, and at the same time fulfill the 'properties' of God, God must be 'nothing'. That is not to say that there is no God, but to say that God is nothing. If you think about it, it is not easy to be nothing physically. It is a special state that you need to maintain, thermodynamically you need some effort to maintain such a state of nothing. Perhaps that is the greatness of God.

If God is Nothing, then it will always at a perfect state, no right or wrong, and always perfect, complete and consistence with itself over eternity.

And most importantly, never get bored.

9/13/2007 03:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is so difficult to understand that God humbled Himself to be with us and yet still finds joy in our joy, felt pain even worse than our own and yet perfectly shares His unconditional and perfect love with millions of people. God's love is so complete that it has the intimacy of a parent and a marriage: I'm not sure if you are in a pure and loving intimacy in which your loved one is always giving, supportive and forgiving, but I'm sure that is anything but boring -- on my end it would be humbling and a place of peace. And, I don't know if you are a parent -- but from what I hear that is anything but boring, as well. Now imagine God's limitless but intimate relationships in which He has the pleasure of giving to millions of children so that they can conquer their fears and hopes in order to share the love He shared with them.... that's more mind-boggling to me than anything. I wish you and the ones you love that love, my fellow man. It's incomprehensible, but complete.

9/14/2008 01:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just thought -- if you enjoy hearing what others think and sharing your opinions, wouldn't God?

But you are right -- it is almost incomprehensible that Jesus is so selfless that He valued His life less than ours -- His omnipotence in exchange for our failures by becoming man. Can you imagine that philanthropic gift? If you can, it's only because He invented philanthropy. I agree with you that it really makes no logical sense because by human standards, do you know of many who give their lives as selflessly as He did? If they do, to Whom do they attribute their love? Amazingly, the mere circumlocution of both the questions and answers posted on your site prove again that God is the Alpha and Omega. I find that His circle of answers and questions in His design amazing, but then again, I can't be surprised by His perfection.

You know, He knows the way in which you need to travel to meet Him, how you may need to see Him when you get there, and so I hope you find Him where He has already set to meet you ;)

9/14/2008 01:24:00 PM  

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